The News from ElephantToenails.com

I’m starting a new category topic called “I’ve Got a Beef.” It is for me to sound off. So when you see ole Johnny Mac here you know I’m sounding off. (I was a Borg fan actually, but grew to like John McEnroe a lot over the years). If you don’t know John was famous for his on the court tirades.

Unfortunately, my first installment in “I’ve got a Beef” is pretty close to home for us all of us, but I’m sorry….cause I’ve got a beef.

HOW ABOUT A GLO IN THE DARK WEBSITE?

You guys know I am not one to complain BUT my gracious- have you seen the new National Knife Collector Association website? I know I am not web guru myself, but come on….. green and purple GLO colors.

Maybe it is just my browser or something….like my eyes. It looks like Day-Glo fluorescent with an optical illusion as its focal point!? How about instead, maybe…..a knife, or how about people- yes, smiling collectors at a show…… but a never-ending Day-Glo circle? Must be some of that new age stuff at work here, or something…

I know the NKCA is more than for collectors of antique knives- but there is ton of imagery that could have been used on the site. (I realize pics can be slow to load, but..) I also know the NKCA is a non-profit and probably not flush with cash, BUT…… can’t we make our organization’s site look appealing for folks who come to check out this wonderful hobby of ours? Hopefully, the landing page/homepage is just under construction.

This is Part II of our topic of “What is the best approach to use to sell your collection?” In Part I we looked at questions to ask yourself. These questions are pointers to help determine which approach best fits your needs, now I want to look at the pros and cons of the different approaches.

In general, a knife is only worth what someone is willing to pay. We must ask ourselves what factors/set of circumstances can I create to create the ultimate buying environment so that when that “offer” comes in it is the maximum offer I could/can expect.

As both an auctioneer and a knife collector, I have been asked on numerous occasions which is more advantageous to sell through, the auction method, or the one-on-one negotiated sales approach. This question typically then leads to online auction, such as eBay compared to the traditional live auction format.

To look into the answers involved here we examine several aspects; first, we must examine each method’s pros and cons. (more…)

When it is time to sell your knives, what is the best approach? Should we take the knives to the next area show, put them on eBay, sell them to a dealer all at one time, or should we hire a traditional auctioneer to sell them for us?

You may be thinking, “Whoa, Scott, where the heck is this coming from? We are having fun collecting toenails here….we talk about buying, so why are you talking about selling?”

Guys one day we will sell. Heck, you never know, you might decide to start collecting butterflies or election buttons (just kidding) or simply want to reallocate your assets, if you will, or could be faced with a forced sale, or worse, an estate sale, you get my point- bottom-line, we need a plan, OK? I think about this frequently as it relates to my collection, my family and their livelihood, and what if something should happen to me. This article is not about a forced or estate sale, so cheer up, but not to think about it at all would be some form of denial, wouldn’t it?

Frequently I am asked about my auction experience and how the prices realized at auction compare to those obtained through the more traditional one-on-one approach, and more recently, how the online auctions compare, from a seller’s perspective. (more…)

Part Two: Price vs. Value

In Part One of “What is Price,” we were reminded that WE are the demand. It is the buyers who determine value and buy at our price (most of the time). I realize in the real world it is more balanced and takes a willing seller in order for our “price” to be acceptable. I am not talking about going around slinging low-ball offers just because we determine what a toenail is really worth, but it is not the opposite either- a seller demanding his price just because he has a rare toenail “for sale.”

In Part Two I want us to examine how price and value compare, if they do. So, let’s start with What is Value, What is Price and aren’t they the same thing?

In layman’s terms, Value is what something is worth as supported by “the market.” Price, on the other-hand, is what is expected, required or given. It may be more or less than its value. Furthermore, price often follows value, not the other way around.

Say, you NEED a Case Brothers stag (5250) to complete your Case Brother toenail collection. You locate one from a dealer who 1) Recognizes you NEED it, or 2) isn’t motivated to sell it below a number at which he is willing to keep it. You are a highly motivated buyer and he isn’t. So provided you can come to terms is the price you paid representative of the value of a Case Brothers Stag? Probably not. Its value put you in the ballpark, but it is likely this seller is wanting a premium and you are willing to pay it. In a more typical situation, the buyer wouldn’t be willing to pay the sellers above market value, thus the sale wouldn’t have been consummated.

More-often than not, what we run up against is a seller (usually a dealer, but not always) who wants to command a premium price and this often results in the knife staying for sale for a while. In fact it will either stay for sale until one of two things occur- the seller eventually gets right or a buyer finally gives in and pays the price. Sometimes enough time has transpired for the value to have caught up with the price. I saw this in real estate many times prior to 2006.

I personally know of a seller who had some fine toenails for sale. He admittedly didn’t care if they sold or not (which strikes me odd). His prices we above market value resulting in him carrying the toenails around from show to show for a least a couple of years. Finally the values came up close enough to his price that he started selling them. So, was his price the real value? Obviously not, otherwise, they would have been snatched up the first time they were displayed.

Fellow collectors, don’t fall victim to the notion that “there are so few collectors that it takes months or years for a rare toenail to sell.” That is wrong. We are lead to believe this oftentimes by dealers who attempt to justify their price. Take for example, Jumbo Swellcenters, one of the more expensive toenails among collectors, I know of at least 4 sales just this past month. So the one that remains for sale for a long time, either doesn’t have strong demand because of something about the knife, or is overpriced. It is not that there aren’t many collectors who can afford them. Joe Seale told me years ago, he typically doesn’t keep a Jumbo for more than 30 days.

There is no doubt toenails are not a life staple. We don’t live or die as a result of not getting a particular toenail. But because of this, defining our “need” for toenails is much more difficult and can lead us to paying a price that isn’t supported by the market (and many times this is OK with us).

Price is more subjective, whereas value is more objective. Price, at the end of the day, is the amount an individual collector, or dealer, is willing to pay or sell for. Value is much more broad and is a price that is supported by the market.

Collecting is emotional- not rational and can cause collectors to pay a price that is a perceived value, but may not be market value.

This concludes the two-part series on “What is Price?” I recognize no earth shattering revelations were announced, but it is important to understand the difference between price and value, how price is determined and whether or not that price represents the market as we continue on our toenail quest. Reminding myself of these truths helps me to calibrate when I lose focus and perspective, which happens almost every time I run across a new toenail to buy.

Part One: WE are the Demand!

I wrote this article several months ago, however, haven’t felt it was “time” to run it- Well now I do. My prompting was a email I received yesterday from a collector asking me about a toenail he was being priced to buy. This collector indicated he was offered this toenail and thought the price was too high and wanted to know my 2 cents. Well, it fired me up!

This collector was being offered a jumbo for about 25- 30% more than any toenail of that style has sold for (and we track them closely) and this equates to a bunch of money considering what really good Jumbos are selling for. I told my fellow collector in no uncertain terms- “No, the knife wasn’t worth that price if you want to use recent sales as the basis.” I know there are times we use other factors to help us individually determine the worth of a knife, however, if you just look at “comps” then we have a very good indicator as to what other collectors recently paid. Then there is the “What is it worth to me right now?” question.

We know the number of Toenail collectors is continuing to grow each year. Toenails enjoy a very high degree collectibility and popularity. From all indications I can see (from visits to my website, conversations with dealers and collectors, bidders on online auctions, etc) it will continue in popularity.

One of the benefits resulting from this popularity is a large enough group make up toenail collectors that enable us to make some things happen. It wasn’t too long ago, a dealer might have for sale a “once in a lifetime” offering of a Jumbo Swellcenter (or any other toenail, for that matter) and would stick a really big price on it. Then the collector (buyer) not knowing how long it would be, if ever, he would find another one like that bought it. The price was typically secondary in the decision and was pretty much dictated by the dealer.

You are familiar with the old economic principle of Supply and Demand. Well, WE are the demand.

I am convinced the supply is there and now we have the opportunity to drive our own market, instead of being a victim to the prices/values of the dealers and price guides. In the past we were told what values were, what brands have the highest value and which ones are the least popular, etc. In the past we have been told… “well this toenail is priced at X because of Y,” which may not reflect what we as collectors judge is important.

In the end it is the Buyers who determine value and the factors that are important in knives that are purchased…not sellers (I confront this issue of how value is determined almost every day in my “real job” of meeting with real estate owners who think just because they spent X on their “premier property” then it should be worth that, well…the harsh reality is if no one buys the property (after a reasonable period of time) the conclusion is it simply isn’t worth X. Period end of story).

My goal is not to start a rebellion, but here is a real fact: In most cases toenail prices are being set by “Price Guides (mine notwithstanding),” instead of the price buyers are actually paying for these knives. It is not uncommon for the writer to take a few sales to help them in their assessment of what has happened to values, but just due to the sheer number of patterns produced it is impossible to make it much of a science.

Moreover, many insiders attempt to “drive the market.” Just because 88’s (what ever the heck that is) went up X% doesn’t mean toenails experienced the same value change (it could have been more or less). I am well aware of “record prices” periodically paid for toenails and I do my best to keep my ear to the ground in an attempt to see where values are going and what is happening as it relates to toenails. Yes, I know of a few record sales for extremely rare toenails , but those sales are also the exceptions rather than the rule, and furthermore, don’t necessarily “set” the price for the rest of the approx. 100 other brands or 300 different variations of older toenails that are out there.

Bottomline: WE are the demand and we decide what a particular toenail is worth.

Part Two in this series on “What determines Price?” will be posted this week entitled “Is there a difference between Price and Value?”

We started the discussion of collectible condition with previous post on “What is the basis of value for an old knife?” While the overall theme was how Brand should have a greater weight than condition when determining the value of an antique knife, we saw one of the byproducts of an overemphasis on condition is knives being “made” to resemble original condition knives.

Today I’d like to discuss what I am going to call “What about knives with the three R’s (Reconditioned, Restored & Reworked) do they qualify as Collectible Condition?”

For us here at ET.com, we have voted on our definition of Collectible Condition and the results may surprise some of you. (more…)

As a collector of old knives, in the past I have harbored concerns over various statements I have read in knife books written by many very well respected dealers pertaining to rare knives. These authors held a theory that a old knife pattern would eventually lose collector interest, and therefore value, because the knives would eventually become so hard to find that collectors would shy away. Obviously as a collector vintage toenails, in many cases 70 to 100 years old, this concerned me greatly!

Since that time I have talked with many individuals about this theory. I wanted to know what they thought and has there been examples of any pattern where this actually happened. What I got was more theories and conjecture, but no real substantive examples.

One particular conversation struck me and I thought it was helpful for those of you who, like me, may have had this nagging concern too. (more…)

Rethinking the Knife Industry’s Standard of “Collectible Condition” for Vintage Knives

What should be the basis of value for old knives?

Let me begin by asking you- When was the last time you saw a Near Mint or Mint Case Brothers toenail in stag or pearl, or who about a Near Mint or Mint W R Case & Sons Jumbo Swellcenter, or maybe a Near Mint or Mints Platts Brothers Andover, NY toenail, etc. The list could go on and on.

The question wasn’t if you had seen any of these toenails, instead the question was about the condition of these knives- Near Mint or Mint.

I have come to the realization that affects all collectors. The knife collecting establishment has created and embraced a standard that is flawed as it relates to vintage knives.

While the old school says “Condition is the basis of value,” however, when considering vintage knives, one must be a bit more practical. I contend- Brand is the basis of value. Brand is the Who, What, When, Where and Why of a knife or pattern. The history behind and the identity of the company that made or sold the knife is a more significant factor relating to value, not whether or not the tang stamp is super crisp or if the blade snaps like a new knife.

Hear me out on this- My interest is not in lowering the standard, instead it is more to approach building a collection of vintage knives from a practical perspective.

I am sure this problem is not just limited to toenails. This dilemma faces all vintage knives, particularly a pattern that was made for a specific use, or has been discontinued, or was produced by a knife company no longer in operation. Moreover, we know the toenail was produced to be a hardcore work knife, aside from the fact it became obsolete in the mid- 1900’s with the advancement in hand tools and machinery.

We frown on restored, reworked or cleaned knives, yet the establishment continues its mantra “Collect only Near Mint to Mint knives.” We had all seen first-hand here at ET.com the byproduct of this emphasis on condition. It is cleaning, buffing, and in some cases reworking old knives- all done for the sole purpose of producing knives in so called “collectible condition.”

Should not the standard of collectible condition for a newer knife be different than an old knife?

Don’t get me wrong, as a collector I want the best condition knife I can find, however, I believe from the most practical viewpoint that the brand should be the basis of value, not condition, as it related to vintage knives.

Before I head out to work this morning, I just had to let y’all know y’all took care of me last night on the calendar auctions on eBay. I really appreciate it. My wife told me I was crazy, again, for making them in the first place and didn’t know who would want one. Well, heck- I would have even though I don’t have a paper calendar anymore- I use my phone for my calendar, but still I thought there would be some folks out there who would. You proved me right. Thanks.

It was fun to watch the auctions close. I knew two or three of the bidder’s ebay names and a couple of guys/gals who said they were going to take a run at one. I was very pleased with the final results…and for you who think I made out like a bandit- honestly, those sales covered cost. I know that is hard to believe, but it is true. Apple has a premium service at a premium price. But I will say, when those suckers hung at like 99 cents for three or four days, I thought, “oh, my gosh, surely there is someone who would want them.”

  It was a fun project and I don’t have any intentions of making any more. Can’t say I won’t, but not planning it at this time. Thanks again and hope the guys who bought them like them.Scott  

As I now begin to receive short bios/profiles from individuals from all over (I was sent one from a gentleman in France a little bit ago), I wanted to say how good it is to finally get to “see” you.

Putting a face with the name really changes things for me. You and I have never met and receiving your photo sure makes what I am doing here at ET.com much more personal.

“Talking” to faceless names by email (and especially writing to the “masses” through this website) is one thing, but finally getting to “see” you sure brings perspective….to me anyway. It is like we have finally really met.

I know this post may be uncharacteristic for a “web-host,” but as I get older, I am coming to realize some things about life and how important people are. So, at the risk of being too sentimental, please excuse me, but I wanted to say thank you for your support and participation. I can promise you this- if it weren’t for you I wouldn’t do it.

One final note: I have received several emails from folks who don’t feel they warrant a “profile,” because they are either new collectors, or don’t have many, if any toenails. Please, the point of the profile is for us to get to meet you. Just the fact that you come ’round here is indicative of the fact that you share in this same interest as we do. My goal for us is simply to put a face with the name and a brief “this is who I am” - not to prove who had the most knives or the most valuable. We are just individuals who have a common interest. 

Scott